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Rottweiler Performance findings on the 790

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#121 ·
Car industry have similar Bosch ECU for such a long time and I would say that it is matter of time when more and more companies will be able to fully modify stock ecu. I know there are companies in Czech Republic, Germany, Austria who already can do that and change almost everything even closed loop area.
 
#122 ·
adamwwa said:
Car industry have similar Bosch ECU for such a long time
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True - but so far it has been necessary to open the ECU casing to send signals in via probe. What can well be very different however is what is loaded into it.

Think of it like a PC - you can run Windows or Linux. One of these has to be hacked the other does not. But they are way different.
 
Discussion starter · #123 ·
tango1 said:
Check engine "ON" means, your gear based mapping is dactivated and you are in so called "protection mode". So you have all gears in one map setup, i am not sure why someone would do this.
Also your drive modes is disabled (only the Throttle opening speed configuration per mode is active). Making the bike worse, to be able to run a external product, i guess i am missing a point here.
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Check engine light steady ON simply means the ECU detected a fault or miscommunication with a sensor. I think you're trying to describe a blinking check engine light which could place the bike into a "protection mode" which can disable features and limit engine rpm and throttle. Everyone who has a PCV with the check engine light ON states that they have all Drive modes and dyno results show the AFRs are running just fine with a proper tune.

I think there should be a "Coober's findings on the 790" post on this forum. Any info pertaining to their products can be posted in there for people to decipher and try to make sense of.
 
#124 ·
dj790duke said:
Check engine light steady ON simply means the ECU detected a fault or miscommunication with a sensor. I think you're trying to describe a blinking check engine light which could place the bike into a "protection mode" which can disable features and limit engine rpm and throttle.
Click to expand...
This is a standard KTM function, introduced 2015.
Your KTM dealer should be able to explain to you what check engine means at KTM.

dj790duke said:
Everyone who has a PCV with the check engine light ON states that they have all Drive modes and dyno results show the AFRs are running just fine with a proper tune.
Click to expand...
Yes, because one map. Also introduced 2015 on the first Beast generation

dj790duke said:
I think there should be a "Coober's findings on the 790" post on this forum. Any info pertaining to their products can be posted in there for people to decipher and try to make sense of.
Click to expand...
No sure about any findings, but driving with a error lamp on does not make sense at all to me.

I am not defending anyone here, but some solutions are simply strange
 
#125 ·
adamwwa said:
Car industry have similar Bosch ECU for such a long time and I would say that it is matter of time when more and more companies will be able to fully modify stock ecu. I know there are companies in Czech Republic, Germany, Austria who already can do that and change almost everything even closed loop area.
Click to expand...
There are already companies flashing the 790 to what ever you want, but first hookup on KTM diagnostic simply write it back. :grin:
 
Discussion starter · #126 ·
tango1 said:
This is a standard KTM function, introduced 2015.
Your KTM dealer should be able to explain to you what check engine means at KTM.



Yes, because one map. Also introduced 2015 on the first Beast generation



No sure about any findings, but driving with a error lamp on does not make sense at all to me.

I am not defending anyone here, but some solutions are simply strange
Click to expand...

Well aware of what a check engine light does. You're just stating that having the light steady ON will put the bike into a "protection mode" which it does not. If it was in "protection mode" (BLINKING light on dash) throttle would be cut way back and rpms would be limited which is obviously not the case when a PCV is used. Disconnecting the o2 sensors results in a STEADY check engine light and the ECU defaults to .45v (stoichiometric afr ratio) which, you are correct, will run the bike on a base map. The same base map the bike runs on whenever it's in open loop. This, in turn, allows the PCV to adjust the map however tuner needs to without the bike trying to make unwanted corrections to the afr. The PCV allows the use of it's own Autotune if desired which can make it's own corrections to the afr that can be set by the tuner. Gear-based mapping is also easily available and fully tunable.

The whole idea of the PCV is to allow the end user the ability to FULLY adjust the tune perfectly for their bike, something the Coober ECU doesn't offer. Some people like that freedom of adjustability. It's just up to them if having a STEADY check engine light (no "protection mode") is worth it or not. If someone could make a simple alternating current wave signal emulator that can report a stoichiometric afr to the ECU, the check engine light issue would be solved.

Has anyone ever confirmed that the 790 actually uses gear-based mapping from the factory? Haven't kept up with any of these new ECU hackers lately to see what they have found.
 
#133 ·
barbagris said:
If only it were that simple. It seems to be a variable PWM signal. MyJet in Austria are supposed to return from corporate leave today.
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Did we ever hear any more on this from MyJet? A plug and play solution would be great.

I'm taking the plunge with an Arrow Dual Pro Race outlet (obligatory decat) bought from a fellow member here. I've got the PCV and A/T that was also on the bike, although I'm not totally sold on the benefits of setting up the A/T.

Also has me thinking from the car industry that there are some decent O2 simulators out there that have been in use for years to help quell CELs for downstream O2 sensors with catalyst removal. Some are piggyback with installed O2 sensors and some are straight emulators to remove the O2 sensor. I'm going to call Rotweiller this week to order up a Power Plate, ask a few questions about maps, and see if they have messed with anything like that yet. I'd be willing to take a stab at it with a little more info on what's been thrown at these ECUs already and what they might be looking for to satisfy the CEL if it seems plausible.

If you could get a tight enough range on that O2 output that could satisfy the ECU while not jamming up your mapping with a large fluctuation on the incoming O2 signal there could be a total solution there for a CEL free tune.

I'm not opposed to running with a CEL and just scanning periodically for other codes, but If I can have my cake and eat it too...

As a side point, anyone out there running PCV with A/T that can give me enough propaganda to motivate me to pull my header and weld a bung in?
 
#135 ·
I am not in the same league regarding ECU knowledge as most of the earlier posts on this topic. I have more experience with carburettors and steam engines!
Bearing that in mind, here is a reply I received from Rottweiler following my enquiry to them concerning simple O2 dongles:-

"Unfortunately there are no O2 dongles that work on the 790 platform. The Bosch ECU that comes on these bikes is not too friendly to changes. The only way we are able to achieve low-end fuelling is with the Power Commander and disconnecting the O2 sensors, which will throw a CEL on the dash"

It would be good to hear from users of Rapid Bike Easy, who claim to have improved the A/F ratio by modifying the O2 signal. I am uneasy about the RB claim and irritated by the crazy graph that they issue to substantiate their claims, showing A/F against Road Speed.
'Road Speed' for heavens sake! This is meaningless. Surely we need a graph of A/F against Engine Revs to make a quantitative judgement.
 
#136 ·
Oldwisedude said:
I am not in the same league regarding ECU knowledge as most of the earlier posts on this topic. I have more experience with carburettors and steam engines!
Bearing that in mind, here is a reply I received from Rottweiler following my enquiry to them concerning simple O2 dongles:-

"Unfortunately there are no O2 dongles that work on the 790 platform. The Bosch ECU that comes on these bikes is not too friendly to changes. The only way we are able to achieve low-end fuelling is with the Power Commander and disconnecting the O2 sensors, which will throw a CEL on the dash"

It would be good to hear from users of Rapid Bike Easy, who claim to have improved the A/F ratio by modifying the O2 signal. I am uneasy about the RB claim and irritated by the crazy graph that they issue to substantiate their claims, showing A/F against Road Speed.
'Road Speed' for heavens sake! This is meaningless. Surely we need a graph of A/F against Engine Revs to make a quantitative judgement.
Click to expand...
Go to the Rottweiler Facebook site. They have been getting substantial increases in power on the 790 Adventure just through ignition timing and open loop mapping with the PC5. In one of their posts, they say they are going to shortly revisit the 790 Duke with a view to getting similar gains. They also put a Coober equiped 790 adventure on their dyno, including measuring AFR etc etc. results are also on their facebook site.
 
#137 ·
Just spoke with Rottweiler today and they are still working on something for the O2 sensor engine light , they are also wor on a custom intake system for the 790 Duke. They say they are going to be supporting our platform and more to come! after a lot of research I think I’m going with what they are offering and do the PCV and auto tune, they will get it all set up for me and it will Be ready to go out of the box .
 
#138 ·
Daveizzle9 said:
Just spoke with Rottweiler today and they are still working on something for the O2 sensor engine light , they are also wor on a custom intake system for the 790 Duke. They say they are going to be supporting our platform and more to come! after a lot of research I think I’m going with what they are offering and do the PCV and auto tune, they will get it all set up for me and it will Be ready to go out of the box .
Click to expand...
they have been talking about that since they first came out with their PCV . I bought my PCV from them two years ago and they said the same thing then. It does make more hp on the dyno though but with the light on. I gained hp and filled in the hole in the middle.
 
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