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Discussion Starter #1
Seriously thinking of just doing decat leaving the stock pipe. Might try to get the Akra map added too. Question is, will it void the warranty? I mean, they're akra evo exhaust deletes the cat too.
 

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Depends...in the USA, the Magnuson-Moss Warranty Act excludes manufactures from voiding warranty coverage in the presence of mods, unless the modification itself contributed to the failure. That said, it doesn't mean you wont have a fight on your hands if there is an issue even if the modification is totally unrelated....it's going to come down to your dealer and possibly their relationship w/ KTM NA.
 

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Here's the thing. The Akra Evo and Map are stated as RACING USE ONLY (here).

I don't know in the USA - but here TRACK USE of a road vehicle would invalidate any road use warranty right away.
USING TRACK ONLY products on the road is probably an invalidation clause too.

Also - and again this may differ in the USA -
But KTM have openly stated that the R8c was designed from the get go to run with a Cat.
Whereas other engines were not and subsequently modified to do so.

I guess if it blows up - you could quickly refit that cat and try your luck.
But IIRC all engine warranty requires direct AUSTRIAN factory (and reputably COOBER) involvement.
They'll know if the engine was running WRONG.

To date I have not read of any real reason to decat.

That's just my take - and I am not adverse to decatting where it makes a difference - On the big Triumph I gained 30% RWHP. And masses of midrange. But it was/is a big low stressed engine in standard tune.
Would it make much difference on a 790 or 890. My gut says nope.
 

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Discussion Starter #4
Here's the thing. The Akra Evo and Map are stated as RACING USE ONLY (here).

I don't know in the USA - but here TRACK USE of a road vehicle would invalidate any road use warranty right away.
USING TRACK ONLY products on the road is probably an invalidation clause too.

Also - and again this may differ in the USA -
But KTM have openly stated that the R8c was designed from the get go to run with a Cat.
Whereas other engines were not and subsequently modified to do so.

I guess if it blows up - you could quickly refit that cat and try your luck.
But IIRC all engine warranty requires direct AUSTRIAN factory (and reputably COOBER) involvement.
They'll know if the engine was running WRONG.

To date I have not read of any real reason to decat.

That's just my take - and I am not adverse to decatting where it makes a difference - On the big Triumph I gained 30% RWHP. And masses of midrange. But it was/is a big low stressed engine in standard tune.
Would it make much difference on a 790 or 890. My gut says nope.
Not looking for a performance boost... just the most economical way to add more rumble. Plus, maybe the akro map can help with some of the low speed stumbling.

Anyway, I doubt KTM would promote a full decat exhaust system if it somehow would harm the engine. Others on this board have done decat and put non-Akra slip-ons and had the Akra map installed.

I don't know though, there's some decent looking slip-ons out there, but I admit I like the stock...
 

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A slip-on, especially if you leave any Db killer installed, is a nice solution and won't require a remap.

It's highly likely that you can keep the stock muffler, install a decat and have the same results.

If you do a full, or open system, you definitely need the remap.

As for warranty issues, you should check with your dealer. They do the work. They know the rules.
 

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Discussion Starter #7
So first dealer I called told me that:

1. Decat will definitely void warranty. Any mod that is done to "increase performance" voids warranty.

2. Due to EPA rules, in the U.S. the Akra map update is no longer offered as an option... at all o_O:mad:
 

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The Stock SLIP ON is basically an OPEN PIPE. It's shape and volume is what makes its rumble. The only real restriction is the EXIT hole diameter. But it's moot as it is close to the header dimensions.

Pretty much ANY SLIP ON will not "Increase performance" - and it has been documented that many actually "decrease" it.

Might be worth looking at the @Hawkerjet Akra-baba solution unless you find an aesthetic alternative you like. Or maybe search for another OEM slip on on Ebay and gut it!.

3dB more is twice as loud.
 

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Due to EPA rules, in the U.S. the Akra map update is no longer offered as an option... at all
I'll check with my dealer next time I'm down there. Very disappointing if that's the case. I was hoping to avoid the Power Commander as I really didn't want a "patch" solution.

Frankly, this would be 100% of the reason I don't buy another KTM street bike.

I'd switch to Aprilia when I'm bored with the KTM. The RS660 looks sweet and Aprilia will support the product for the enthusiast community - great dealer support, too.

Ducati also, but want to wait and see why the FBI was knocking (or not knocking) on their doors recently...
 

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Discussion Starter #10
I contacted a 2nd dealer. They told me that indeed the decat midpipe would void warranty. As far as the ECU flash goes, he says he'd need the bike in the shop and plugged in in order to see what ECU flash updates are allowed.
 

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I have cat delete pipe and stock end can. Runs just fine but a little loud. I don’t see how any freeing up of the pipe downstream of the headers could cause overheating or other issues but l’m not an engineer so happy to be corrected. Definitely saves a lot of weight though and looks a whole lot tidier
 

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The RS660 looks sweet and Aprilia will support the product for the enthusiast community - great dealer support, too.
IF the Apriia sold there is the same as the one sold in the EU (engine and management - wise) then it is going to be locked down. Aprilia USA may decide to assist, but Aprillia won't.

One of my oldest friends over here is an Italian guy with a bike repair/modification business. Mainly a Guzzi specialist, but he has excellent direct factory contacts with most Italian companies - but especially the Piaggio group of which Aprilia is part. Ducati is part of the Volkswagen Group - read into that what you may.

He has recently refocused his entire operation as the modification part is now simply not viable on a ROI basis for 99% of owners. He has sold his Dyno. He was also telling me how hard it is to find certain aftermarket performance products now - many companies now make a deal with a mfr to build an exclusive "performance" range.

Sadly the writing is out there on the wall. I am happy to have lived though a time when modification was possible, and will continue to do so on suitable platforms. But EU5 onwards I think will become a real issue. EU4 was already tough.

And tbh I am getting older - One day I'll join the rest of us oldies and get an Adventure bike (because even getting to the bathroom on time will be an adventure) - But it won't be a BMW. And yes I would entertain a 'lectric bike - as long as it has a proper range.
 

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Sadly the writing is out there on the wall. I am happy to have lived though a time when modification was possible, and will continue to do so on suitable platforms.
Dude, we approach this from 2 different ends of the spectrum and that's perfectly OK.

As I always say sometimes, it's the reason they make chocolate and vanilla.

No offense to your guzzi friend, but performance for that crowd is a rear tire that lasts 20k miles. I am on the opposite end of the spectrum, I only ride on a track and I RIDE (with a little in reserve to make sure I can push my bike into the trailer, not shovel it)

No doubt tuning has moved decidedly more technical. In many respects it's easier.

Heck, I can manage 3 different tunes for my pick-up truck and swap between them in minutes. There's no reason why a willing manufacturer and a capable aftermarket can't improve upon the showroom fare. If it can't be better, why bother?

Just sayin'.. If it's true that KTM can't, or won't enable a software update - I will not look back.

Here's Aprilia USA offering for the RS 660

6154
 

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No offense to your guzzi friend, but performance for that crowd is a rear tire that lasts 20k miles. I am on the opposite end of the spectrum, I only ride on a track and I RIDE (with a little in reserve to make sure I can push my bike into the trailer, not shovel it)
Lest we Forget - Not all Guzzi owners are slow.
In my day - Guzzi owners tended to be at the fast end too. And SERIOUS tuners.
Not as fancy as the Ducati's and not as loony as the Laverdas - but usually faster than most.
An example of my mate's customers.



And not all of us are afraid of radical changes.

6164


Take a look at those heads. Downdraft crossflow - Belt driven DOHC. Made in his lad's sandpit.

My own Guzzi looks dull - Had it almost 40 years.
But I am a fan of Wolves dressed as Sheep.

6165
 
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