KTM 790 Duke Forum banner

1 - 11 of 11 Posts

·
Registered
2020 KTM 790 Duke
Joined
·
32 Posts
Discussion Starter #1
I had installed front (and rear) Skene LEDs last summer to enhance visibility.

Later on in the year '20I installed and enabled LED signals.

This winter I tied the front LEDs into the Skene controller so they are always lit/flicker the same as the Skene LED units for even more daytime vis.

I had to use a resistor kit for the OEM LED signals to avoid the signal error indication. I used the Skene LED signal resistor kit.

The vid below is a best effort view of the effect. Right signal is on. The Skene flicker looks extreme in the video, but tbh it's much more subtle and almost unnoticeable when viewed straight on.


6851
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
101 Posts
Maybe I don’t get what is going on here, but why is the non blinking turn signal flickering? As a rider and a driver if I saw all that flashing coming at me I’d assume the bike has wiring issues and have no idea if it’s turning or what.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
35 Posts
I think if the police saw your lights flashing like that, at least in the uk, they would stop you for a word. As far as I know all lights must be solid unless you're an emergency vehicle?
 

·
Registered
2020 KTM 790 Duke
Joined
·
32 Posts
Discussion Starter #4
Maybe I don’t get what is going on here, but why is the non blinking turn signal flickering? As a rider and a driver if I saw all that flashing coming at me I’d assume the bike has wiring issues and have no idea if it’s turning or what.
Per the comment I wrote above "the Skene flicker looks extreme in the video, but tbh it's much more subtle and almost unnoticeable when viewed straight on."

I can understand if someone is not familiar with Skene visibility LEDs that this would look odd.

You can read all about Skene's visibility LEDs here: Skene Lights - motorcycle safety lighting In short the very high-flicker-rate LEDs such that the flicker is only visible from a peripheral view and not straight on https://www.skenelights.com/conspicuity-flicker. The idea being to get someone not looking in your direction (e.g., at an intersection) to notice that you are there. I tested this as well with my wife following/heading-towards me in her car, and indeed it works as advertised - looks solidly when viewed mostly straight on.

Also naturally a phone camera will show even more LED flicker depending on the duty cycle of the LED(s). I even recorded in 60fps to try and help that, but I think youtube's processing made it worse again.

In short, straight on the non-turning LEDs looks like solidly lit LEDs - the vid is not a great representation, but anyone else already using Skene will understand what I'm showing.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,587 Posts
I think if the police saw your lights flashing like that, at least in the uk, they would stop you for a word. As far as I know all lights must be solid unless you're an emergency vehicle?
There was a UK company that had a similar product (also patent protected, outside the USA). Their website disappeared ages ago. I don't know why, but I'll bet your concerns are somehow related.

I built my own version 2015-ish using cheap PWM and pulse controllers. Despite the claims - The human brain is less perceptive than a fixed frame/second camera. Because it's subjective, and learns to filter out what it has no interest in - unless you arouse Fight_or_Flight, which flicker does not (usually). If ambient light is strong - the effect diminishes very fast.
Most humans develop psychological tunnel vision in/on vehicles. Yup! - motorcyclists too.
 

·
Registered
2020 KTM 790 Duke
Joined
·
32 Posts
Discussion Starter #7
There was a UK company that had a similar product (also patent protected, outside the USA). Their website disappeared ages ago. I don't know why, but I'll bet your concerns are somehow related.

I built my own version 2015-ish using cheap PWM and pulse controllers. Despite the claims - The human brain is less perceptive than a fixed frame/second camera. Because it's subjective, and learns to filter out what it has no interest in - unless you arouse Fight_or_Flight, which flicker does not (usually). If ambient light is strong - the effect diminishes very fast.
Most humans develop psychological tunnel vision in/on vehicles. Yup! - motorcyclists too.
Agreed it's certainly not a panacea and I'm not assuming "Ok, I'm 100% safe now... everyone sees me!" lol

For me it's just one more thing to help being noticed and considered. For example I find the Duke's stock tail/brake-light to be a bit anemic so the added brightness to lighting/braking at the rear gives me a little more confidence that the driver behind me actually sees me and esp that I am braking. Again, no assumptions, just hopefully reducing the odds a bit.

Also the Skene's are programmable via the brake lever so if there's any concern about the flicker (or other feature behaviours) it can be disabled and then they just become ordinary but really bright LEDs for extra lighting.

Sure they're not for everyone, but after ~40 years on the roads and having a few "experiences" I'll take a few add-ons that hopefully increase my odds. ;)
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,587 Posts
Like you say - if the law allows then can't hurt.

Biological interfaces are occasionally unreliable. For example, I find it almost impossible to focus on Cobalt Blue LED light. First detected at Nuremburg airport, when I realised I could not read the electronic gate numbers. It makes my perception of modern emergency vehicles very vague. Old flashing blue filament lights I see no problems at all. I am sort of aware of a weird glow but I don't really "see" it unless I first understand it's there.
 

·
Registered
2020 KTM 790 Duke
Joined
·
32 Posts
Discussion Starter #9
For some reason my original response got tagged as pending moderator approval, no idea why...

Per the comment I wrote above "the Skene flicker looks extreme in the video, but tbh it's much more subtle and almost unnoticeable when viewed straight on."

I can understand if someone is not familiar with Skene visibility LEDs that this would look odd.

Per Conspicuity Flicker | skenelights the optional very high-flicker-rate on these LEDs is only visible from a peripheral view and not straight on from a distance. The idea being to encourage someone not paying a lot of attention (perhaps at an intersection) to actually notice that you are there. I tested the effect subjectively with my wife following/heading-towards me in her car and indeed it works as advertised - looks solidly lit when viewed directly from other cars. In fact she tried to tell me they weren't flickering at all until I got her to look at them from an angle out of the corner of her vision.

A phone camera will show even more LED flicker depending on the duty cycle of the LED(s). I even recorded in 60fps to try and help that, but I think the video upload processing made it worse again.

In short, straight on the non-turning LEDs looks like solidly lit LEDs - the vid is not a great representation, but anyone else already using Skene will understand what I'm showing.

Also if you don't want to use their "conspicuity-flicker" it can be turned off and the just become very bright visibility/brake LEDs.

PS. No I'm not selling them or part of the company :) I just like the added visibility they provide.

This orig post was only about the added ability to run the stock LED signals as "running lights" using the Skene controller.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,587 Posts
For example I find the Duke's stock tail/brake-light to be a bit anemic
Most modern bikes seem to have PATHETIC position lights and I see (pun) no actual reason. A 1980's bike had 21W indicators. Somewhen it became acceptable to reduce to 10W.
Then we hit the LED craze.

Now, I am a BIG fan of LED's and have been for well over 45 years - but most cheap LED indicators and tail lights barely draw a watt and are well down on emitted lumens and depend massively on the light being focused at where the designer believes the onlooker will be. "Power" LEDs usually don't draw more than 3W. depend less on the lens-ing. Better but still marginally down on lumens.

On my Triumph I measured the focal center of the indicator lenses and made 10W LED inserts. These are close (maybe marginally more lumens) than a 21W incandescent. They have heatsinks and would even so over heat if simply switched on. The rears I sneaked some 10W Red leds onto the same backplates. They are rigged to flash a predetermined semi random number of times and then go off.

SETS.JPG

Also made up a 30W LED rear tail

trimed.jpg

Silly bright when braking - think car headlight bright but RED). Now on a mate's bike in Washington State.
 

·
Registered
2020 KTM 790 Duke
Joined
·
32 Posts
Discussion Starter #11
...
On my Triumph I measured the focal center of the indicator lenses and made 10W LED inserts. These are close (maybe marginally more lumens) than a 21W incandescent. They have heatsinks and would even so over heat if simply switched on. The rears I sneaked some 10W Red leds onto the same backplates. They are rigged to flash a predetermined semi random number of times and then go off.
...
Also made up a 30W LED rear tail
...
Very nice work! (y)
 
1 - 11 of 11 Posts
Top