[Essie]

Hiyas!
Week 4 of 790 ownership.
Absolutely loving the ride, despite the intermittent engine shutoffs while shifting gears. Took him back to the shop again today to get them to look harder after another instance with no luck pinpointing why at his 1000km service last week.
Fingers crossed it's an easy fix.
Here he is with his little bro.

 

[The Mekon]

Are you using the quick shift? Make sure on up changes you do not shut the throttle - keep it steady. On down I have the throttle shut. MY quick shift works perfectly.

 

[Essie]

Nope. Haven't engaged the quickshifter at all yet. .

 

[The Mekon]

I cannot understand why you are not using the quick shift - it is one of the bikes great features. Are you sure this feature is disabled in the display?? If not and you are always shifting using the clutch then you should be careful about your technique. As I understand it, actuating the gear lever cuts the ignition - just like you are experiencing. Using the clutch does not disengage the quickshift.

 

[Essie]

I am not using the quickshifter because I choose not to... for now.
It's a very new bike to me (used to more basic V-twins without all the tech), so I prefer to get to know it at its most basic configurations before getting adventurous with all the "features" just yet. Old ladies like me like to get a feel for the behaviour of the machine on the road, as well as ensure we retain certain skills in case of future absence of the features for whatever reason.
As for technique, well yes, a new riding position has called for some modification of hand positioning for the blip. However a sometimes-less-positive throttle pull should not shut everything down, locking the rear wheel, having me searching for the starter mid-turn in a busy intersection in the wet.
Besides, all the logs of those shutdowns should be showing up in the data, and it isn't. No information has been forthcoming on that front at all so far.

 

[The Mekon]

What makes you think that every little stall should show up in the data log? I do not think it is that comprehensive. My bike has stalled just once in 11,000km - and that was when slowing down in suburban traffic. I think you need to give the bike a bit more time to settle. I take it you are in "street" mode for starters. In fact I ran the first 100km in "rain; mode.

 

[Shultz]

A warm engine shouldn’t be shutting down unless you actually stall it - regardless of QS. which dealer are you bringing it to? Procycles?

Tom in Sydney

 

[Essie]

@The Mekon I'd hardly call my shutdowns "little stalls". Never in my life has any bike I've ridden stalled outside of first. Most irregular, IMHO.
I too used rain mode for roughly the same as you, and yes, street mode
I picked it up from the shop today, none the wiser.
I guess that means there is plenty of time for the bike to settle in...

Tom, Ultimate in Ipswich.

 

[Shultz]

Ahh sorry I thought you were in NSW. Anyway these bikes have complex EFI systems and I know they run lean but stalling should not happen once 3 bars are on the temp gauge. I’d be looking for a 2nd opinion.

Tom in Sydney

 

[Oldwisedude]

Nope. Haven't engaged the quickshifter at all yet. .

By that, do you mean that you have gone into “settings” and selected to deactivate the quickshifter? Just need that confirmation to try to help with diagnosing possible reasons.
There is a technique needed with quickshifters that conflicts with our long established “pre-load the gear-lever” method. If you attempt “old school” shifts by clutch but still have the quickshifter enabled, you will suffer all sorts of jerking. Does the engine cut out during gear shifts or randomly when idling in neutral?
Just trying to make some sense of your problem. Keep us informed with as much detail as possible. Cheers.

 

[Essie]

Hi, OWD
I haven't deactivated the QS because I never activated it. However I can't say that it's never been activated because someone clocked up 11km on it before I testrode it, and the sales guy asked whether I wanted it on for my testride, which I declined. So I don't know whether or not it was deactivated again before my turn. It's definitely off now, though.

So far since the last shop visit, we've swapped to the spare key, and changed all the fuses around (much easier being all 10amp!) In case contacts were a bit dodgy.

He cut out again yesterday, between 4th and 3rd. Engine was well and truly warm then, so it might be time to turn the QS on and see what happens. That's twice in the last week. Admittedly I'm a bit apprehensive given how ingrained clutch shifting is in an old brain, but really that's the only reason it's still off... I'll just forget I have it 😉.

 

[Oldwisedude]

Hiyas!
Week 4 of 790 ownership.
"Absolutely loving the ride, despite the intermittent engine shutoffs while shifting gears."

Looking back at your very first post, I strongly suspect that that your quickshifter is still activated by default in 'Settings', although as the rider you think that you are not using QS, since you are still using the clutch between gears.
Since the dealer cannot diagnose a fault, this seems more likely to me.

These are your options :-

1. Delve into the dash panel and deselect the Quickshifter option, then gearshift manually, as you would normally.

2. Or focus on a slightly different gearshifting technique. Namely, ensure that your boot does not touch the gearlever in any way until your clutch is disengaged, then tread the gear and proceed as usual (adjust the lever link rod to optimise the relationship between boot and lever)
If you manually de-clutch during gearshifts with QS active, you are likely to mis-time the shift and experience what feels like an engine stall, if the gearlever sensor activates before the clutch lever switch.

3. If QS is active in 'Setting', the slightest contact with your boot will tell the ECU that a gearshift is about to happen. Consequently, on up-shifts the power will be momentarily cut (keep the throttle open and steady), your foot will engage the gear seamlessly (without clutch), then the power will return within milliseconds and off you go.

Once you get the feel of it you will love the QS system. But you MUST avoid tentative touches of the gearlever. Be decisive, quick, firm and positive. Trust the QS. Keep the revs well over 2000 (see owners manual) for up or down shifts. When you gain confidence and belief in the system, try upshifts with the power held on. Don't use the clutch. It is brilliant during overtakes. I still de-clutch between first and second but thereafter the QS works like magic.

 

[Oldwisedude]

Our posts are crossing as we write
Maybe the clutch switch is faulty or the gearlever sensor permanently active? Only the dealer could check those. For your own peace of mind, have a look a settings and change them to suit yourself. Keep in touch.

 

[Essie]

Thank you 🙂
I'll have a look into all of that tomorrow and get back to you.

 

[Essie]

So I turned on the QS this week to see how it would affect things.
Upshifts are mostly smooth, but I'm not a fan of the downs, really. A bit rough, and seems to need a good kick. Plus, I much prefer the sound of a real blip by hand to the autoblipper which seems a bit A-about-F to me. So I'm only using it on the ups. Only one instance of having to really knock it up, which was to get him up into 5th, otherwise fine.

However, the bike cut out again today, just the once, from 2nd to 1st. I've been making sure my boot is well away from the lever, and throttle blips are positive. So I can't say that having the QS has any bearing on the original problem at this point.

 

[Oldwisedude]

The QS up shift should be fast and faultless. Downshifts do need a firm confident press. I agree with you that blipping for downshifts is instinctive to ‘old hands’ and sounds good too. The down QS gets the shift done without drama and no rev overshoot, but in a polite subdued way. So it’s not as satisfying as a manual shift and feels as if dog teeth might get chipped (although they don't). However, it’s handy if you’re busy braking heavily prior to a turn or using left hand signals.

My original hunch was that the QS was creating the apparent engine cutout, so turning it OFF should have made things better, if you had a switch or boot timing conflict. It seems now that this could not have been the case.

So get the dealer to confirm that you have the latest ECU software version. Also ask them to sync the gearshift.
I might be on the wrong track but cutting out is not common from what I have deduced on this forum, whereas QS issues are.

It is bad enough having our engines running on 'fresh-air' to comply with emission regulations but combined with any other faulty switch or sensor must be making your riding very difficult, unpleasant and dangerous. I am sure all forum members sympathise with your issue but it seems to me that you need to keep pestering the dealer, who in turn might need to refer this to KTM.

In the meantime try riding in Rain Mode and see if it has any bearing on the symptoms. Best wishes. OWD

 

[Essie]

Yup, up to 4th, it is lovely, however not so much past that. And yes, having to stomp down does feel like it's going to break something. I'll turn it back off for the weekend, and go back to rain mode.

A return visit to the shop is also planned. We were assured of the latest software at the last visit, so little change is expected there.

Speaking to your last paragraph, it is indeed unfortunate. Thing is, I adore this bike. I'm even almost used to the cutting out, learning to remain vigilant to the telltale switch-off noise. It's a bit of a worry commuting to and from an airbase, with fighter jets booming overhead, but if I can hear it, I'm not as inclined to freak out as I was the first few times. It happens more approaching intersections at low speeds, so hooking into corners at higher revs isn't a problem.
It's so easy to ride and a ton of fun, even in traffic. I'm an experienced rider (and yes, I did have to even say that at the dealer, the same one who took my one-owner 14-yr-old Vtwin as a trade), and know a fault when I experience one. It's fair to say that I'm learning to live with it, but yes, a resolution would be nice.

 

[magoo]

I agree with oldwisedude with the exception that the engine dying between 2nd to 1st is a real problem and nothing to do with the QS or technique. My 2018 does it only occasionally but one one occasion it put me in a potentially dangerous position. Also QS on upshifts are only really smooth when you’re hard on the throttle (which is what it’s designed and tuned for) Cheers

 

[Oldwisedude]

I have total sympathy for Essie. This cutting out malarkey is not acceptable. Essie’s issues are not only from 2nd to 1st, it has also happened from 4th to 3rd. We all know how crucial it is that motorbikes respond to driver inputs without a glitch, so this problem could have serious safety concerns if circumstances conspired against us.
Get something in writing to the dealer with a copy to KTM. Good luck.

 

[Oldwisedude]

Brief follow-on :- If you do write to the dealer and KTM keep the tone of your letter as factual and constructive as possible. Tell them the circumstances, however variable, when the stalling occurs. Also explain what you have tried and experimented with in your attempts to find what affects the cutting out and what doesn’t.
Make the obvious comments concerning how potentially dangerous this can be and any close shaves that you have endured, but don’t ‘milk’ it.
Clarify that you are an experienced rider and not a serial moaner, but someone who has patiently tried to resolve this intermittent fault but with no success so far. Let’s get a reaction from KTM first, before going ‘legal’.
Keep us posted.