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Discussion Starter #1
I've been watching for this since the KTM/CFMOTO partnership was announced, and it looks like it's finally happening. I picked up my 790 in Sept because I would rather have an Austrian built bike, and the rumors of the move were out there. The plant opens in June 2020. Maybe I'm a little paranoid, but I wanted to avoid the first generation of bikes coming out of a new Chinese factory.
https://www.webbikeworld.com/ktm-and-cf-moto-join-forces/
 

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What if the manufacturing is held to an even higher standard in china?

:wink:
 

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It’s practically impossible to buy nothing made in PRC but l always source bigger purchases made in other countries when l can
 

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European ones will continue to be made in Europe.
Does that mean that the European populace will receive models only produced in Europe?

Personally not a fan of the saturation of Chinese products, (here in the USA), but their quality standards for higher-end products have definitely improved greatly.
 

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Personally, I would not consider for a moment buying a motorcycle manufactured in China. In my experience, Chinese products are made to be disposable. I've not found anything made there that I would consider high quality. I've recently done quite a bit of renovation on a home, and became appalled that so many items simply are not available from anywhere but China. Absolutely would not buy a motorcycle made in China.
 

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Does that mean that the European populace will receive models only produced in Europe?.
From what I read a while back when KTM announced the deal - The deal with China was to help supply the growing Asian sector. And let's be clear here the growth market is Asia. Shipping wise it makes sense to use China to supply the PacRim.

ime of Chinese mfr - the issue is not the fabrication but the QC. QC is what pushes prices up as it is usually HUMAN based. I remember reading that 1 in 4 Mercedes fails to pass QC the first time.

Thing is that folk want cheap stuff so many importers etc simply do not do their own QC. I've a contact on the optics industry that has everything made in China - but has his own employees in there doing QC. Almost no customer issues. Yes his stuff costs more than pure Chinese imports made in the same factory.

Bear in mind that Europe is not that big. And for the huge majority there is now no real customs (Brexit may change things for the UK guys).
 

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From what I read a while back when KTM announced the deal - The deal with China was to help supply the growing Asian sector. And let's be clear here the growth market is Asia. Shipping wise it makes sense to use China to supply the PacRim.

ime of Chinese mfr - the issue is not the fabrication but the QC. QC is what pushes prices up as it is usually HUMAN based. I remember reading that 1 in 4 Mercedes fails to pass QC the first time.

Thing is that folk want cheap stuff so many importers etc simply do not do their own QC. I've a contact on the optics industry that has everything made in China - but has his own employees in there doing QC. Almost no customer issues. Yes his stuff costs more than pure Chinese imports made in the same factory.

Bear in mind that Europe is not that big. And for the huge majority there is now no real customs (Brexit may change things for the UK guys).

Spoke with KTM Dealer, they were told by KTM, only V2 and the single (Enduro, MC) are going to be made in Austria.
The CFmoto/KTM factory is way higher standard, then the one at HQ. Fun fact, the fail rate on 790 made in austria is actually the highest of all KTM bikes. Lets hope they move quicker to PRC
 

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From what I read a while back when KTM announced the deal - The deal with China was to help supply the growing Asian sector. And let's be clear here the growth market is Asia. Shipping wise it makes sense to use China to supply the PacRim.

ime of Chinese mfr - the issue is not the fabrication but the QC. QC is what pushes prices up as it is usually HUMAN based. I remember reading that 1 in 4 Mercedes fails to pass QC the first time.

Thing is that folk want cheap stuff so many importers etc simply do not do their own QC. I've a contact on the optics industry that has everything made in China - but has his own employees in there doing QC. Almost no customer issues. Yes his stuff costs more than pure Chinese imports made in the same factory.

Bear in mind that Europe is not that big. And for the huge majority there is now no real customs (Brexit may change things for the UK guys).

Spoke with KTM Dealer, they were told by KTM, only V2 and the single (Enduro, MC) are going to be made in Austria.
The CFmoto/KTM factory is way higher standard, then the one at HQ. Fun fact, the fail rate on 790 made in austria is actually the highest of all KTM bikes. Lets hope they move quicker to PRC
Agree.

My 790 is obviously made in Austria. Been a nightmare since it left the showroom floor. Maybe the Chinese can stop the oil leaks once and for all.
 

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Personally, I would not consider for a moment buying a motorcycle manufactured in China. In my experience, Chinese products are made to be disposable. I've not found anything made there that I would consider high quality. I've recently done quite a bit of renovation on a home, and became appalled that so many items simply are not available from anywhere but China. Absolutely would not buy a motorcycle made in China.
That's exactly what everyone said about Japanese made products after WW2. *** crap was the term often used to describe Japanese made.
They have managed to produce some pretty good motorcycles (and cars and electronics etc, etc).
 

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That's exactly what everyone said about Japanese made products after WW2. *** crap was the term often used to describe Japanese made.
They have managed to produce some pretty good motorcycles (and cars and electronics etc, etc).
When I see it from China, I'll believe it.

So far, almost everything I've seen from China is junk (the exception in my experience is carbon bicycle frames)
 

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China like many other countries can make product as good as anywhere else in the world. It's the infrastructure and quality systems behind it that will need to be replicated out there to make it a success. Competing at world level is about adding value where possible and outsourcing appropriately.
 

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Chinese manufacturing can be amazing as long as the manufacturer actually invests in quality control and oversight. Like Volvo.
 

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This may or may not be true - I know the KTM factory sales rep for the Pacific NW and asked him about the manufacturing in China ( or India )
He said ( and this was about three months ago so it may have changed as you all know things do) the Chinese factory is only for the Asian market not for the US or Europe. He was at the time emphatic about that but I repeat we all know large corporations change their minds frequently and they also sometimes intentionally mislead.

As for Chinese quality it really depends on who is doing the manufacturing. How about stereo equipment, how about Apple watches, computers and phones and on and on. If the corporation that outsources their product to China is interested in real QC I/d wager Chinese manufacturing will rival the US. I owned the first 390 Duke made in India - it wasn't the best quality but I have no issues with it and it was inexpensive as bikes go. The second year 390 was vastly improved in overall quality. At the end of the day I can't imagine KTM would risk their reputation to produce an inferior product whether its Chinese or Indian or Austrian. I will add that I've had not a single problem with any KTM I've owned and it goes back to an 08 990 Duke, 690 Enduro, SM and Duke, a 1290 SDr and now the 790 Duke and the previously mentioned 390 Duke. I've never had a single issue with any of them.

We'll know when we see the bikes =- I also asked my dealer who I know very well and he said he had no information on that and I believe him **** he said we don't know anything about the new bikes until we uncrate them. KTM doesn't want them to know much because lets face it KTM North America has a lot of bikes in the pipeline and the dealers own a lot of bikes they want to sell before the latest models arrive so they keep everyone in the dark. Makes sense doesn't it ?
 

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Discussion Starter #18
I've seen a few articles lately that say all 790 (and 890) manufacturing will be in China, regardless of where they will be sold. I had the same experience with dealerships not having any information. It's possible that the KTM mother's has kept the finer details to themselves.

The quality of the Chinese manufacturing will likely be fine, but my logic was if the first model year of a bike has a few issues to work out, what will a first year factory have?

https://www.visordown.com/news/industry/ktm-expands-production-china-cfmoto-factory-deal
 

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AFAIK they're already building KTM's - just not the larger engines - yet!.
There's a long interview with Stefan Pierer on cyclenews.com that covers this:

o https://www.cyclenews.com/2019/10/article/ktm-president-ceo-stefan-pierer-interview-part-1/

o https://www.cyclenews.com/2019/10/article/ktm-president-ceo-stefan-pierer-interview-part-2/

In part one he mentions that the China built engines (joint venture with CFMoto) will build engines with reduced tolerances/power for emerging markets:

"I understand you’ve sold the rights of a specific KTM engine to your partners in China, CFMoto. What are they going to do with it?

We have transferred our 790 parallel-twin to the joint venture we have with them, so instead of putting in money, we handed over our intellectual property. And based on that engine platform, we helped them source everything in China to create an almost identical engine, but with reduced tolerances and some detail differences, the performance is a little bit less than we have here in Europe."

Reading between there will be separate markets for Euro/USA and elsewhere.

They are very insightful interviews - well worth reading.
 
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