Aftermarket ECU - 2018 KTM 790 Duke Forum
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post #1 of 47 (permalink) Old 09-27-2018, 04:30 AM Thread Starter
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Aftermarket ECU

So i fit a decat mid pipe with my original exhaust and i really like the sound and the volume is just right too.

After a few days i decided fit a aftermarket ECU just to richen up the system hopefully smoothing out the throttle response and add a bit of extra power.


Having spoken to Austin racing and they said "Yes itíll definitely be better however Iím unsure if youíll get the maximum potential using the standard muffler."


Coober says "We have a ECU version for de-cat 790, but never sold one, the power loose is huge. The engine was developed to be used with cat.
If you De-cat the 790 then you need whole setup the get a stable power output."

Now i cant say ive felt any huge loss of power in fact my bum Dyno says the bike is quicker.



Both units look identical with a different logo (and i assume a different mapping?)

So i guess im asking if anyone out there has tried a setup like this or has more knowledge about these things than me.

Do i really need a ECU to protect my engine after a decat?

Im kinda leaning towards the AR unit as it gives me room to move in to a aftermarket slipon at some point if i want to. Also the graph looks more linear.


What do you think?
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post #2 of 47 (permalink) Old 09-27-2018, 07:06 AM
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Originally Posted by DukeAus View Post
So i fit a decat mid pipe with my original exhaust and i really like the sound and the volume is just right too.

After a few days i decided fit a aftermarket ECU just to richen up the system hopefully smoothing out the throttle response and add a bit of extra power.


Having spoken to Austin racing and they said "Yes itíll definitely be better however Iím unsure if youíll get the maximum potential using the standard muffler."


Coober says "We have a ECU version for de-cat 790, but never sold one, the power loose is huge. The engine was developed to be used with cat.
If you De-cat the 790 then you need whole setup the get a stable power output."

Now i cant say ive felt any huge loss of power in fact my bum Dyno says the bike is quicker.



Both units look identical with a different logo (and i assume a different mapping?)

So i guess im asking if anyone out there has tried a setup like this or has more knowledge about these things than me.

Do i really need a ECU to protect my engine after a decat?

Im kinda leaning towards the AR unit as it gives me room to move in to a aftermarket slipon at some point if i want to. Also the graph looks more linear.


What do you think?
this topic is covered in the decat thread
i fitted the coober last night.

Bottom line i think both are correct
Coober claim a decat removes too much back pressure affecting mid range power significantly 4000-8000
AR runs as decat this should produce more power circa 8500 upwards as the higher the revs the less significant back pressure becomes
If this is all true then Coober for road use and AR for Track would make sense.

The only way to be 100% would be if someone want to spend the money and time dyno testing all options on same dyno for comparison

Joy is riding your bike to it's limit
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post #3 of 47 (permalink) Old 09-27-2018, 07:56 AM
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Hi,


1nd best thing would be get the AR muffler and ATOM ecu, this is a cheaper option then 2nd one, but still good enough since we could assume that decat pipe you have is the same as one sold by AR.



2st best thing would be to get AR decat & muffler system with intake ATOM ecu so you don't have to take bike for dyno-tuning. AR decat with ATOM and advanced map would be best but cost the most, reason is that this system is already setup probably within 90% range of ideal setup.


3rd best thing would be to get programmable ECU and take the bike to some good map tuner with dyno table, then it does not matter what setup you have, but not skilled tuners could do more damage then leaving bike as is.

Explanation...

Soon as you change intake or exhaust parameters you need to revise fueling map for ECU, it would also be good to change ignition timings but that is not necessary if you are not looking for power. You bike is most likely running to lean in low to mid rpms since you have increased exhaust flow (increasing exhaust flow will increase intake flow as well) and your ECU has no way of knowing how big the change is and what to change. Running lean actually increases power since it increases burning temperatures but at the same time it creates negative effects like burn valves and could create knocking (both are bad things for your engine in the long run). Why you need another ECU is because you can't reprogram stock ECU (if you could this would probably be cheapest way but you still need map tuner, dyno table & wideband O2 sensor). Reason why you need to reprogram your ECU is because stock ECU does not measure air flow in the intake or measure O2 in the exhaust which are both needed in order to know how much fuel you need to feed.


ATOM from AR is already set up to change stock ECU fueling signal to work well with their exhaust & intake combinations so you don't have to go for dyno tuning.


Hope this helps, also I don't have 790 duke (will be buying it next year) but I do understand how ECU and electroning fueling works.
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post #4 of 47 (permalink) Old 09-27-2018, 08:48 AM
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Back pressure from catalytic converter might be needed to increase torque in low-mid rpm range (because of the valve timings might be set up to for power at high rpm) but on AR webpage dyno shows this not to be correct, since biggest gains are actually in low to mid range with de-cat pipe they sell.


http://www.austinracing.com/modules/.../114/graph.jpg
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post #5 of 47 (permalink) Old 09-27-2018, 09:02 AM Thread Starter
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Thanks for the info guys.

@Anril i dont believe the ATOM unit is programmable at all, you just get what you get.

I agree the AR graph looks to me more like a torquey road tune compared to the Coober graph that looks more peaky. Did you take a look at the Coober graph... the one i posted is a bit small you can see it better on their site.

If the AR map and setup is indeed more road biased than the Coober unit i will go ahead and purchase from AR.


@anotheronetoday yeah i thought i would start a new thread to keep the exhaust stuff easier to find as that other thread has all kinds of stuff in it.
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post #6 of 47 (permalink) Old 09-27-2018, 10:21 AM
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Originally Posted by Anril View Post
Hi,


1nd best thing would be get the AR muffler and ATOM ecu, this is a cheaper option then 2nd one, but still good enough since we could assume that decat pipe you have is the same as one sold by AR.



2st best thing would be to get AR decat & muffler system with intake ATOM ecu so you don't have to take bike for dyno-tuning. AR decat with ATOM and advanced map would be best but cost the most, reason is that this system is already setup probably within 90% range of ideal setup.


3rd best thing would be to get programmable ECU and take the bike to some good map tuner with dyno table, then it does not matter what setup you have, but not skilled tuners could do more damage then leaving bike as is.

Explanation...

Soon as you change intake or exhaust parameters you need to revise fueling map for ECU, it would also be good to change ignition timings but that is not necessary if you are not looking for power. You bike is most likely running to lean in low to mid rpms since you have increased exhaust flow (increasing exhaust flow will increase intake flow as well) and your ECU has no way of knowing how big the change is and what to change. Running lean actually increases power since it increases burning temperatures but at the same time it creates negative effects like burn valves and could create knocking (both are bad things for your engine in the long run). Why you need another ECU is because you can't reprogram stock ECU (if you could this would probably be cheapest way but you still need map tuner, dyno table & wideband O2 sensor). Reason why you need to reprogram your ECU is because stock ECU does not measure air flow in the intake or measure O2 in the exhaust which are both needed in order to know how much fuel you need to feed.


ATOM from AR is already set up to change stock ECU fueling signal to work well with their exhaust & intake combinations so you don't have to go for dyno tuning.


Hope this helps, also I don't have 790 duke (will be buying it next year) but I do understand how ECU and electroning fueling works.
Hi Anril
I did not have a clean start
I purchase my bike with akro
Then purchased a decat not from AR
Then remove my akro baffle
so having purchased an akro and decat taking the AR complete system approach would have been significantly more money than just buying the coober

Perhaps the real shame is that the coober/atom unit only has one fixed map and that power commander are slow at introducing new kits for new bikes

Joy is riding your bike to it's limit
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post #7 of 47 (permalink) Old 09-27-2018, 04:12 PM
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Hi peoples, I just found another thread about this in aftermarket parts and bits, but I see someone is trying to combine the threads, so apologises if Im adding what is already known or has been discussed...🤔
Anyway, just as a 790 owner, I have the full AR system, with wiring harness, ATOM module and air box mod, and have done probably now over 1200 road miles with it....and I can say it has improved fuelling, as I can now ride it in sport mode almost all the time, without the original low rev snatchiness, and the mid range power has improved significantly, but I’ve have actually forgotten how good the original standard bike was in the 1st place....
I originally just wanted an end can that looked a little better than the original, but when I got my bike in early may there wasn’t anything available other than AR who were still developing the system at that point. I spoke to the guys there, and was told that for the full system (removing the cat) it needed the ATOM to stop it running hot/lean, and for optimum performance with that system they had just tested the air box mod which was the restricting factor in getting more/better air quantity into the bike.
I then got sucked in! Pardon the pun...🙄
I guess, with a new bike, as always there’s a lot of behind the scenes development, and people trying to mix and match pieces, and yes, I would say that the comber ECU is physically the same as the ATOM, and is probably the same part, although unknown, certainly to me, if the mappings are different...but just putting it out there, that at the moment the AR system I have fitted (myself by the way, it’s okay if you take your time, especially with the wiring harness-all very good quality connectors..etc...) does what it says on the tin so to speak...although I’ve not dynoed it, and don’t intend to as it’s made a fun bike even more fun....😁
Sorry for the long post.....Paul
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post #8 of 47 (permalink) Old 09-27-2018, 04:19 PM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ph66 View Post
Hi peoples, I just found another thread about this in aftermarket parts and bits, but I see someone is trying to combine the threads, so apologises if Im adding what is already known or has been discussed...🤔
Anyway, just as a 790 owner, I have the full AR system, with wiring harness, ATOM module and air box mod, and have done probably now over 1200 road miles with it....and I can say it has improved fuelling, as I can now ride it in sport mode almost all the time, without the original low rev snatchiness, and the mid range power has improved significantly, but Iíve have actually forgotten how good the original standard bike was in the 1st place....
I originally just wanted an end can that looked a little better than the original, but when I got my bike in early may there wasnít anything available other than AR who were still developing the system at that point. I spoke to the guys there, and was told that for the full system (removing the cat) it needed the ATOM to stop it running hot/lean, and for optimum performance with that system they had just tested the air box mod which was the restricting factor in getting more/better air quantity into the bike.
I then got sucked in! Pardon the pun...🙄
I guess, with a new bike, as always thereís a lot of behind the scenes development, and people trying to mix and match pieces, and yes, I would say that the comber ECU is physically the same as the ATOM, and is probably the same part, although unknown, certainly to me, if the mappings are different...but just putting it out there, that at the moment the AR system I have fitted (myself by the way, itís okay if you take your time, especially with the wiring harness-all very good quality connectors..etc...) does what it says on the tin so to speak...although Iíve not dynoed it, and donít intend to as itís made a fun bike even more fun....😁
Sorry for the long post.....Paul
Thanks for the info @ph66 .

So did you feel a drop in low/mid power?

Did the power move further up in the rev range?

Is the induction much noisier now?

appreciate you chiming in.
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post #9 of 47 (permalink) Old 09-27-2018, 05:29 PM
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Hi DukeAus, no drop in mid/low power, although I wouldn’t have expected that? But the torque power has increased right through the Rev range, and pulls much stronger than before, but as I said in the previous post, I’ve forgotten what the original standard bike was like now that I’ve been riding this system for quite a time, but that first ride was very noticeable...and it still pulling stronger than before (the engine) sitting up at over 125mph (closed road obviously..&#x1f633 but I’m sure laying on the tank the top speed would be pretty respectable...
As regards induction noise, I can’t say I’ve noticed any real difference, but the standard air box is quite small and restrictive with a difficult path for the air flow, so the air box mod just relieves the pressure in the box, but with it all mounted under the seat, it’s not like conventional sports bikes with the intakes on the front behind the fairing where the noise is more noticeable...😁
Hope that helps...🤔
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post #10 of 47 (permalink) Old 09-27-2018, 07:12 PM Thread Starter
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So i think im going to order the ATOM ECU and airbox mod from AR.

The weight saving with the decat is quite substantial so im happy to keep it that way.

I love with the sound of the decat with original pipe so im good there.

If i want to fit a lighter slip on later i can and the bike should only run better.

I dont suppose anyone knows the db rating of the original end can? i would like to replace it but i dont want anything louder.
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