Fuel Ron for your duke? - 2018 KTM 790 Duke Forum
 4Likes
Reply
 
Thread Tools
post #1 of 13 (permalink) Old 08-12-2019, 07:06 PM Thread Starter
Member
 
magnets's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2019
Location: Australia
Posts: 83
Fuel Ron for your duke?

So the manual i think recommends 95 Ron.

I've been running mine on 98 Ron. Because i just assumed that's what it would need (my car needs to so i'm used to it and know where the cheap stations are).
And australian fuel is well known as being dirty and poorly tested.
But apparently the bike will be happy with 95?

what do you all run?


Here's a handy chart (RON):

American Regular: 87
American midgrade: 89
American Premium: 92.5

EU & UK Regular (called premium in the UK): 95
EU & UK Premium (Called Super in the UK): 97.5
EU & UK Super/(Called Ultimate or V-Power in the UK): 98
EU only (unknown name): 102

Australian Regular: 91
Australian Premium: 95
Australian Super/Ultimate: 98



Sources:
https://www.fueleconomy.gov/feg/octane.shtml
it should also be noted that american 'ron's are actually an average of the RON and MON called a AKI, so US 87 is probably the same as 91.
https://www.drive.com.au/motor-news/...-petrol-119462
magnets is offline  
post #2 of 13 (permalink) Old 08-12-2019, 08:05 PM
VIP Member
 
EvansB2's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2019
Posts: 177
American premium
EvansB2 is offline  
post #3 of 13 (permalink) Old 08-12-2019, 08:35 PM
QCS

Super-Moderator

 
QCS's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2019
Location: Charlotte, NC
Posts: 244
American premium. That's the highest Octane # you can get in US gas stations (as far as I am aware). At least the Duke does not sip as much gas as my Camaro SS...
J D likes this.

I ride because my wife says it keeps me young and is better than if I get a girlfriend...
QCS is offline  
post #4 of 13 (permalink) Old 08-12-2019, 10:04 PM
J D

Eye In The Sky

 
J D's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2019
Location: New York, USA
Posts: 151,018
American Premium, (between 91-93 octane), for me.

Forum Admin. Life goes by faster than a summer vacation.
J D is online now  
post #5 of 13 (permalink) Old 08-13-2019, 02:33 AM
Member
 
Grim Reaper Dodger's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2019
Location: Corby
Posts: 40
Garage
I asked the service manager when doing first service ( I ran my last 2 VFR’s on “VPower” & felt it made a difference, smoother & a bit more oomph, both had around 100,000 miles on them).
He said the engine is designed to run std UK/EU fuel & the improvement on my old bikes would have been from cleaning agents in fuel, which a new clean Euro 4 engine shouldn’t need?

Any thoughts?
Grim Reaper Dodger is offline  
post #6 of 13 (permalink) Old 08-13-2019, 03:53 AM
Senior Member
 
DaveNZ's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2019
Location: Urenui/north of New Plymouth
Posts: 196
BP 98, but at other gas stations i use 95.
DaveNZ is offline  
post #7 of 13 (permalink) Old 08-13-2019, 04:13 AM Thread Starter
Member
 
magnets's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2019
Location: Australia
Posts: 83
Quote:
Originally Posted by Grim Reaper Dodger View Post
I asked the service manager when doing first service ( I ran my last 2 VFR’s on “VPower” & felt it made a difference, smoother & a bit more oomph, both had around 100,000 miles on them).
He said the engine is designed to run std UK/EU fuel & the improvement on my old bikes would have been from cleaning agents in fuel, which a new clean Euro 4 engine shouldn’t need?

Any thoughts?
That sounds right. I think one of the consumer magazines did a test and concluded that it MIGHT give you a small ecomony boost, say 5-8% but if you're paying 10%+ more for the stuff you'll be going out backwards.

In the old days of carburetor, i had to change the needle to match the fuel i was using.

then electronic ignition came out, and i understood it wasn't overly flexible and required a remap to get the best out it if you changed fuels.

nowadays the ecu will be able to adjust a lot for the range of octanes, but you'll get the 'best' result from a specific octane. And that's where i'm stuck: the manual in Australia (P.273) says Super unleaded, then gives the RON for premium unleaded.

i'll have to look up the standard...
magnets is offline  
post #8 of 13 (permalink) Old 08-13-2019, 08:11 AM
QCS

Super-Moderator

 
QCS's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2019
Location: Charlotte, NC
Posts: 244
The problem with lower octane number would be detonation and the horrible damage it can and will cause an engine, if sustained. Melted pistons with holes punched through their crowns is a sight to behold. Detonation doesn't do any good to bearings as well. Otherwise, using a good quality, clean fuel should be fine, even if it is of lower octane. Higher octane will allow advancing the ignition, which is important, mainly, in high rpm.

In the good old days, detonation used to pose much more of a problem, as a lot of the parameters were "built into the engine" and had a very limited range of fixed adjustment. it ran a single, simple 2D ignition curve that managed the degrees of advance as a function of RPM. That means that you had to tune an engine to perform best based on the worst case scenario and sacrifice other operating points. For example, the your max ignition advanced for a high revving, high compression engine was based on performance in the upper rev range. This would sacrifice low and mid range power generation.

With today's ECU controlled fuel injection and ignition, there is much less of a problem, as the ECU can react to pinging (and other sensor data) and very quickly adjust parameters to avoid it (mainly by retarding ignition or changing fuel amounts or air/fuel ratio). The main issue would be that an engine designed to produce a certain power output on a high octane fuel will, most probably produce less.

In its new turbo charged gasoline engine, Mazda provides two power output numbers, one for regular fuel and one for premium. The number for regular is significantly lower than for premium. Torque, BTW, is the same for both. That said, Mazda allows use of any fuel with a minimum octane number (I think it is 83). That means that the engine management system has wide enough adjustment range to ensure safe and reliable operation across the entire range.

This long write-up in not condoning the use of lower octane fuel. I am also not fully aware of the design parameters and range of available adjustments of our specific Duke 790 engine. That said, I would venture to guess (and this is ONLY A GUESS) that using a lower octane fuel will not be damaging.
magnets likes this.

I ride because my wife says it keeps me young and is better than if I get a girlfriend...
QCS is offline  
post #9 of 13 (permalink) Old 08-13-2019, 08:26 AM
QCS

Super-Moderator

 
QCS's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2019
Location: Charlotte, NC
Posts: 244
And another comment:

There are two main ways to determine Octane number of a specific gasoline fuels. RON (Research Octane number) and MON (Motor Octane Number). MON will always be lower than RON, by a significant number. Europe and US are not using the same system to designate octane numbers. The way to determine the Octane properties are the same, but the number presented is different.

In Europe, gas stations describe different types of gasoline based on their RON rating only. In the States the descriptions look a lot like RON, but they are not. In the United States gas stations describe the types of gasoline based on the Pump Octane Number (PON) or AKI (Anti-Knock Index). That number is the average between RON and MON [(RON+MON)/2].

If a fuel is 98 RON then it will be 93 PON -> 93 PUMP
If a fuel is 95 RON and 87 MON then it will be 91 PON -> 91 PUMP

So we need to take this into consideration while comparing European and US specs.
magnets likes this.

I ride because my wife says it keeps me young and is better than if I get a girlfriend...
QCS is offline  
post #10 of 13 (permalink) Old 08-13-2019, 09:02 AM
QCS

Super-Moderator

 
QCS's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2019
Location: Charlotte, NC
Posts: 244
Quote:
Originally Posted by magnets View Post
it should also be noted that american 'ron's are actually an average of the RON and MON called a AKI, so US 87 is probably the same as 91.
Quote:
Originally Posted by QCS View Post
In Europe, gas stations describe different types of gasoline based on their RON rating only. In the States the descriptions look a lot like RON, but they are not. In the United States gas stations describe the types of gasoline based on the Pump Octane Number (PON) or AKI (Anti-Knock Index). That number is the average between RON and MON [(RON+MON)/2].

So we need to take this into consideration while comparing European and US specs.
magnets already mentioned it in his first post. Just wanted to reiterate and provide some additional info.

I ride because my wife says it keeps me young and is better than if I get a girlfriend...
QCS is offline  
Reply

Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Show Printable Version
Email this Page Email this Page



Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
What Did You Do To Your KTM 790 Duke Today? Administrator What Did You Do To Your KTM 790 Duke Today? 488 10-12-2019 11:26 PM
790 Duke vs R6 on Twisty Canyon Run Rocky R KTM 790 Duke General Discussion 1 06-13-2019 12:36 AM
2018 KTM 790 Duke Overview Administrator 2018+ KTM 790 Duke News 3 07-19-2018 01:51 PM
How The Middleweight Duke 790 Ranks Overall Administrator 2018+ KTM 790 Duke News 0 07-19-2018 01:28 PM
KTM 790 Duke Dyno Tested 790 Duke News 2018+ KTM 790 Duke News 2 05-25-2018 05:32 PM

Posting Rules  
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off

 
For the best viewing experience please update your browser to Google Chrome